When we agencies were just starting out and had a single client for our new agency, that was a perilous position. And even later when we added more clients, many of us still found ourselves with just one or two who are bringing in the majority of the revenue. If ever they left, our agency would be in a world of hurt.

Along the same lines, having just a single source of revenue keeps our income and our livelihood at risk. Offering different kinds of services or establishing other sources of revenue sounds like a good idea, but it’s harder than you think. How do you figure out which income streams to pursue? How do you balance it or find options that can complement each other? How can agencies diversify income?

That’s exactly what Phil Pallen is going to talk to us about in this episode of Social Pulse Podcast, hosted by head of Strategic Partnerships at Agorapulse, Mike Allton. Listen to the full episode below or read on for the transcript.

As a brand strategist, Phil has advised hundreds of brands from over 30 countries, including a shark on Shark Tank, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, politicians, and some of the most influential people. 

This non-conventional approach to digital marketing and talent for social media has built him a global audience. He frequently appears as an expert contributor in media outlets around the world, including CNN, Access Hollywood, and the Daily Mail, in addition to this very podcast.

Tell us about your agency.

Mike Allton: What kind of work are you actually doing, and for what kinds of businesses?

Phil Pallen: Yeah, so I have done similar work now for well over a decade. I think we’re at 12 years. I moved out to LA in 2011 after graduating with my master’s degree from Full Sail University. I came from Canada, went out to LA … So, I had some practical skills. I graduated, so I had my laptop and I had Creative Cloud. And I just started helping people. People that I met, with things like logo design, website design, social media strategy. And that was how my business began. It was basically putting my practical skills to use to help people position, build, and promote their brands.

While I’ve worked with many companies over the years, my specialty is in personal branding. So I’ve worked with celebrities. I’ve worked with politicians and coaches, consultants, creators … Content creators nowadays make up some of the most influential clients I’m working with now.

It’s fascinating helping them position, build, and promote their brands with a focus … . I look at branding not as just making something look pretty but really this becomes a business tool. Identify your goals. What is it you’re trying to achieve? How do we take those steps, those mini steps? We kind of reverse engineer it.

What are those mini steps we need to take to make those dreams happen? And how can we position a brand online? To communicate that and build the business and the life that you want. That’s what I’m focused on. 

Mike Allton: Love it. Now. Okay. So we’ve teased it a couple of times. I got to see Daymond John speak just a couple of months ago in Miami. Is that the shark you worked for? Who were you working with? 

Phil Pallen: It is not Daymond. I work, I can’t tell you, but I can say that I work with the nicest one. That’s all I’m going to tell you. But Daymond’s a very good speaker.

Mike Allton: The nicest one. Interesting. All right. So, you were doing a lot from your laptop in LA.

What would you consider to have been your first revenue stream?

Phil Pallen: My first revenue stream was consulting services and, creative services. So building websites and logos, and I’ll never forget it. The first time I ever did what I still offer as a service,  was a brand audit.

I’ve done it hundreds of times with people all over the world. We’ve had almost 400 clients in 12 years in 34 countries. The first time I ever did a brand audit, I met someone who was an aspiring TV host in LA, and she paid me $100. A hundred-dollar bill. And I think I sat with her for three hours, and I thought I had won the lottery.

I was like, “Someone just paid me a hundred dollars!”

I had the hundred dollar bill in my hand. And I was like, “I just got that for talking, for giving someone advice. This is the best job in the world.”

And in the early days I was really excited about designing logos and doing these types of things, and then I reached kind of like a crossroads almost where it’s kind of like, “Do I want to keep building my skills as a graphic designer, or do I want to run a business and potentially find someone who’s even better than me at designing and work in tandem with someone like that?”

And that was the first contractor I ever hired, and still one that I work with to this day. And so that was kind of how I grew, but I’ve never grown super-big. My team is small, lean. A lot of people on the team do more than one or two or three different things. And my team’s very loyal. My contractors, some of them have worked with me almost since when I began.

Mike Allton: What are some of the other ways that you’ve worked to kind of diversify that income stream? You talked about doing consulting at first; you’ve done graphic design.

What else have you gone through? 

Phil Pallen: I made a list for you, Mike. I made a literal list for you called income streams. Listen, I normally don’t prepare for podcast interviews. I just hop in here, but you, first of all, chose such an interesting topic and sent over the questions ahead of time. So I was like, you know what? I’m going to be more prepared than I normally am.  I really love this topic and I find it exciting.

Income streams are a perfect seven

I counted seven income streams. So, my largest at the moment is not what people might expect for the majority of my career. It’s been client work and creative services consulting. But my largest actually in 2024—and it was almost 50-50 in 2023—is sponsored content deals and partnerships, working with brands to create sponsored content on platforms like YouTube, Instagram, and email marketing.

And specifically I’ve worked with over 85 brands in the last four years. My pandemic project was posting once a week and then eventually twice a week onto YouTube and using content creation as a way to kind of fuel my curiosity.

My opportunities to learn and try tools quickly fell into a niche where I was trying AI-powered tools, marketing software, et cetera. And so, that’s the majority of what I do day to day. So that’s number one,  sponsored content, and brand deals, my largest being Adobe, Adobe Express. I also work with Acrobat and Adobe Firefly, their generative AI platform, speaking engagements, and keynote speaking … I would say I focused a little more on this before.

Now I’m able to do so much from my desk that I actually prefer virtual events nowadays. Never thought I would ever admit that, but like not having to schlep on an airplane and travel to all kinds of places. That used to be really fun and exciting for me, but now I’m in my mid-thirties, Mike, and now I really just like sitting at home in pajama pants.

So, we have sponsored content, speaking, client services, consulting obviously remains large for me, affiliate sales. Affiliate sales are exciting. What? Yes, it’s just like free money for making recommendations of things like Agorapulse that I think are really fantastic.

Real estate has been something I’ve been doing since 2018.

I’m not like a Bitcoin guy. I do invest, money, but for me I’m most excited by real estate. I love to travel. And I feel like real estate complements that well. So I have some short-term rental properties here in Florida. I have a condo in Tulum, and I have another house on the West Coast of Mexico.

And I have plans for the money that I save: to buy some other properties in places like Spain where I really enjoy spending time. And then I have, I’ve had, past tense, I’ve had courses. I don’t really believe in the course model anymore. I think it’s a lot of pressure for the creator to keep it updated.

Not a lot of incentive unless there’s a reoccurring income. So I’m a bigger fan of memberships, which is a project I’m working on at the moment, to launch one by summer. So there you go. Seven. 

Speaking gigs

Mike Allton: That’s fascinating. I want to ask you about the speaking thing because we were kind of talking about that a little bit. Before we started recording and I’m a lot like you. I’m a lot older than you, but I’m a lot like you in the sense that I traveled a lot last year. I was in a different city literally every single month.

I have at the moment no solid confirmed speaking gigs for the rest of the year. And I am totally fine with that to sit right here. But it kind of sounded like with you, it had to be a focus. You had to be going after those kinds of speaking gigs. Is that accurate? 

Phil Pallen: Speaking is fascinating. because even the term speaking can mean so many different things, right? Speaking purely marketing conferences, unless you’re Gary Vee or at that caliber of keynote speaker, which is usually stemming from being a celebrity, then you’re not going to make money. You don’t really get paid to speak at marketing conferences.

You show up because it increases the chances that they’ll book you as clients, right? It’s really more of like a marketing initiative than it is like a payday. In most cases, there are still some exceptions to this, but, for me, I can do so much from my desk that it does not make sense for me to be [speaking].  It’s not just one day out.

It’s the day to get there, the day to get back, the lack of focus. And, if you say yes to a speaking gig, you’re saying no to other things. For me, I love making videos and I can do it literally sitting here, 30 paces from my bed. And I enjoy it. I enjoy teaching. I enjoy live streaming. and I can do all of that from here.

So for me, I just don’t find speaking as fulfilling anymore. It’s all, as you said, it is so much work that goes into everything beyond standing on stage for X number of minutes. It’s the outreach. It’s the preparation. It’s the follow-up. It’s putting your slides together and developing custom material for the class.

I mean, listen, it sounds fantastic, but actually getting up on stage and talking is less than 10 percent of the gig. And it’s just not something I am as passionate about. So fires me up. And if it’s the right gig and it’s a good audience and I am in, but if it doesn’t, I’m not enamored by it like I was once when it was akin to also getting to travel the world, which I’m grateful.

I’ve spoken on five continents and that they go hand in hand, the ability to travel. And I’m not saying I don’t love it, I’m just saying I’m much more selective about it these days. 

Mike Allton: It is a lot of work. I find myself being envious of those people who seemingly can walk on stage with virtually no prep and talk well about a topic, you know, for 30, 45, 55 minutes. That’s not me. I consider myself a good speaker, but that’s because I’ve spent like literally 100 hours rehearsing and practicing and scripting and then practicing some more particular talk. So that’s just that much time has to go into it for me. That’s too much. 

Phil Pallen: Yeah. Well, I hate to say it, but I am the first group that you described. If it’s branding, marketing, social media, I speak with such confidence of [the past] 12 years.

Now, the caveat to that is I’ve been speaking a lot more in the last year on AI, and it’s a huge interest of mine, but I find it scarier to talk about. And it’s mostly I’m my own worst enemy.

But to get up on stage and act the role of an expert?I don’t feel like an expert in AI, even though I’ve been creating videos about the topic for almost three years.

I was one of the first affiliates for Synthesia on YouTube and, some of these like earlier AI brands. But I feel like an imposter on that topic because there are so many people talking about it and there are people that go into it, [such as] extreme detail on the chips and the nerdy stuff. For me, it’s more about enthusiasm in how AI can be synonymous with productivity for already busy small business owners. Now, those are the things that I get excited about.

Book writing

And I finished. writing a book, I actually just got the edits back today, so it will be published in October. And Agorapulse is mentioned in it. I guess I shouldn’t say officially because the editor gets the final say, but I’m pretty sure you’re in there. At least I put you in there!

Mike Allton: We appreciate that. I know exactly what you mean about AI. I get drawn into these conversations, and I feel like I do feel like I’m an imposter, even though I do keep up and I’m reading about AI every day and I’m using AI tools every single day.

But like you say, I’m not studying large language models. So I feel that I am somehow inadequate compared to those who are and can speak so intelligently about that topic, but we’re fine. We’re not inadequate.

Everybody really is on the same plain field. Yeah. I want to go back to your income streams because it was really fascinating.

You listed off seven, which is really cool. You threw in real estate, which is very interesting.  I’m glad you brought up speaking for those of you who are listening, who are considering speaking. Listen to what Phil said about looking at marketing events. Sure. To get yourself out there, you will not be paid flat out, but you will meet potential clients and you will meet potential event organizers for associations, the kinds of industries.

They’re the ones who will pay you to come in if you’re an expert on AI. And again, you don’t have to be a large language model expert to teach an organization how they can leverage AI.

But I’m interested in, that the collection of income streams. There’s some differentiation there. I gathered that your sponsorships was your most lucrative, but I’m also wondering how some of those income streams actually complement each other and give you the opportunity to, create one video and, and maybe drive a couple of different income streams, or other kinds of solutions.

Do income streams complement each other? Should they?

Phil Pallen: They all work hand in hand. I’m so glad you brought this up. Obviously having a successful core business gave me disposable income or income that I was able to save and put towards my first mortgage, which I almost wasn’t approved for.

Real estate

But real estate, I’ve increased my wealth. That seems weird to say. I don’t even feel comfortable saying that, but it has. What I did was, I bought a house, which is now worth twice the price I paid for it as a result of it being Florida real estate, and [then I] bought the house across the street. And my skillset specifically in branding has made my short-term rentals very successful.

So I have two houses that are a short drive away from Disney, and they’re not like one of those lame houses that’s themed around like something specific like Harry Potter. That’s what people go to the theme parks for. I don’t know why those people try to compete with the theme parks.

They do.  But our houses are really well-designed. I have like a brand identity for each house. One is pink. One is blue. We’ve selected the wallpaper. So that’s very photogenic. People enjoy being in this space. They enjoy documenting the space. I’m using the same skills or the same kind of strategy that I would do if I was branding a restaurant.

It’s not just like the food. It’s also the experience and the documentation of that experience with social media nowadays. Right. And so I apply that and it’s also just something I’m interested in and it’s something I enjoy.

So that’s an example, Mike, of how you think real estate has nothing to do with branding. Well, actually it does. My most successful YouTube video is called Three Free Apps for Content Creation. And even though I’m talking about three free apps, some of them are freemium, and people have bought them, signed up for them and I get paid for them signing up for it. And so quite often  disclose your affiliate links.

People are quite happy to use your affiliate link as a way to say, “Thank you for putting this in front of me.” And I would say affiliate sales are the closest thing that feels like free money.  I love it when I get random PayPal emails that are like, here is, I have one that is, a thousand dollars a month right now. And I was not expecting that.

Typically, they’re smaller than that. And then they add up to a nice little number. That’s just a nice little bonus. But one is 1, 000 a month right now … I’m not like super strategic, like make sure my affiliate link is everywhere and be super strategic about it.

Here’s my approach, Mike. I’m like, “This is a platform that I really like, and I’m going to make a recommendation because I think it might be useful for you. That’s my North Star. It’s just like, here’s what I use, here’s what you might want to use, and here are the specific reasons why I like it. If you like it, great.” And so I don’t, maybe to a fault, operate with like intense strategy around it. I just try to make good, honest recommendations. 

Mike Allton: Very smart, very great approach. And I love that you brought that connection to real estate. You basically demonstrated how you’re using the skills that you’ve developed over the years and applying them to a completely different industry and seeing.

Success. I was kind of seeing something similar from Austin Armstrong. Who’s going to be on the show later. He also is huge in the AI. He’s got an AI startup and he was taking a lot of his knowledge with AI and a lot of his knowledge with social media and applying it to building a completely different, platform, YouTube channel, separate from anything he’s ever doing. The topic is totally off the wall, random, but watching that channel grow based on the skills that he was able to apply.

So kudos to you for doing that in real estate.

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Mike Allton: So, Phil, I love that you’re almost having this entrepreneurial spirit. You’re trying different products. You’re trying different ways of earning income. I love that you’re working with big brands. That’s something I personally believe in quite a lot. A lot of different brands. That’s awesome.

What have you tried that didn’t work?

What are some services or some angles for diversity and varying income that you either considered or actually tried and then they didn’t turn out so well? 

Phil Pallen: Yeah, I think I hinted at it earlier for. Courses for me were such a fun experiment, and actually my courses did quite well.

But three years have passed since I published them and now the work it takes to update a course on email marketing and Instagram and content! It’s like, “Where do I even begin?”

And then the idea of having to relaunch those, spend time on that, and have that takeaway from something else. It’s just not something that’s feasible for me.

So courses for me are something that I’m glad I try, but it’s not something I’ll be doing any more of. I’m a much bigger believer in the membership model, and that’s something I’ve been wanting to do for a while.

And I’ll tell you big changes in my business this year. I’m much more focused on education and creating community around my knowledge more so than working one-to-one with clients and content,  partnerships, brand partnerships with amazing brands.

 I feel similarly about Agorapulse. I feel that way about Uscreen. I feel that way about Adobe Express. These are really amazing platforms that can transform businesses. And we’re just at a really exciting time in business right now, where I think we all can take inventory of it.

Questions to ask yourself

What do we love to do? What are we passionate about? What tools can we put into place to help automate those tasks that are time-consuming? And then what can we delegate to other people on our team to enable us as humans to focus on the things that we enjoy doing in the areas where we make highest impact in our businesses?

Mike Allton: Very valuable advice. Now let’s, let’s talk about social media for a second. Speaking of things that are changing, lots of automation coming into social media, more so I think than ever. I know you do some social media management for your clients.

How are you currently measuring the business impact of all that work?

It’s a common question that we’re seeing both from the agency side and just on the business side. How do we know that this is working? And you can answer this however you’d like, but I’m really curious how you’re approaching it. 

Phil Pallen: Yeah, well, actually, my answer to this might surprise you.

I do not. I don’t do social media management for my clients. I used to, but I am an adamant believer nowadays that social, the best social media, is done by the source. So I refuse to take on social media management clients, even though I did it many years ago for busy working professionals. I’ve worked with a lot of people over the years and realized the best social media comes from the source.

That doesn’t mean you can’t have people on your team helping you execute and hopping into Agorapulse and scheduling your content, but that should be done by the client. It should not be done by me and it should not be done by a social media agency that will never care as much about your business as you do.

I think it’s much better than I don’t controversial opinion. That’s what I’m here for. I’m here all day. But I think it’s more important to train someone that’s passionate about your business on social media than it is to train someone who’s good at social media to care about your business, just in my experience.

And really, time and time again, I have examples of that. And, even clients that are doing their own social media or that are prioritizing it, Mike, because it has made an impact on their business.

So second part of this, your social media strategy needs to be selfish.

Here’s what I mean by that.

You need to be getting more from it than anyone else, be it recording a podcast, be it creating YouTube videos, or, you know, short-form content, vertical video on TikTok. I don’t care what it is, you need to get more from the process of creating a podcast giving you the opportunity to talk to strangers that could become your clients.

Is creating a YouTube video an opportunity for you to learn about a topic that you’ve been curious about or that you might not otherwise take time to read a book or read an article or stay up to date on? That’s what YouTube is for me.

I started last summer publishing videos about AI before I even knew what I was doing in ChatGPT. And just creating a video to learn and bring people along for that experience actually ended up several months later in an email in my inbox from Adams Media, an imprint of Simon and Schuster with an invite and an advance to write a book that they had ready and they were just looking for an author that fit the topic.

I got a book deal talking about something I made a YouTube video from because I was curious about the topic. So that’s an example. And I have many others about how your social media strategy needs to be selfish. It needs to serve you more importantly than anyone else. 

Mike Allton: Fantastic advice and a really interesting mindset.

And I would probably argue that even if that is your mindset, you’re probably still serving other people more than you’re serving yourself, but that’s what you’re trying to do. Yeah. That’s the goal. I love that approach. And we’ve talked about a lot of different. Let’s say trending topics already in this half an hour’s conversation.

We’ve obviously talked about AI quite a bit. Social media, things are changing all the time.

Where do you go to learn?

Where, what are the, some of the resources, the people, podcasts, blogs, and newsletters that you turn to as trusted resources? 

Phil Pallen: Yep. I get a lot of my information from social media platforms like Instagram.

I love reading articles, so I don’t like, I’m not a book reader, but I love reading articles on LinkedIn. I love reading articles on Medium. I do have, rather than me going to like one or two trusted sources of information, I tend to use either Google Alerts or there’s another platform I love called Brand24.

Whatever I’m interested in tends to come inbound. For me right now, it’s AI specifically. I’m specifically interested in the intersection of branding and artificial intelligence.

Those two worlds for me are really, really interesting. Yeah, short-form content. YouTube, Mike. I freaking love YouTube. I love watching YouTube videos or even live streams or listening to them. That tends to be how I learn and how I kind of collect information and ideas that I marinate on and often share.

Or again, if I even have the start of an idea that I get from something, I’ll often use an Instagram post, like an Instagram carousel to almost finish that idea and formulate my opinion. 

Mike Allton: I love how you’re basically gaming the algorithms, right? You’re creating some of your own content around a particular topic.

You’re obviously watching some videos, short form, long form videos. You’re liking, you’re engaging with those videos. 

Phil Pallen: Yes, exactly. I’m, I’m trying to, you know, of course, I love platforms like Instagram to stay in touch with my friends, but I also like those platforms for learning and consuming information.

I do have a short attention span, so like it’s really hard for me to sit and watch a movie. Really hard. I’m a two-screen kind of guy. My partner hates it, but it’s just, I can’t.

I actually think having a short attention span makes me good at my job, creating an online brand that grabs people’s attention in a few seconds or less.

Mike Allton: Fascinating. Fascinating. Now we’ve talked about some tools. I appreciate all the mentions of Agorapulse.

What tools haven’t we talked about that are in your tech stack?

Phil Pallen: That’s a really dangerous question to ask me. I have a lot of tools. In the book we put 250 tools … Can I give you a few tools that I’m really hyped up about right now?

 Sessions is an alternative to Zoom that is so much more fun than a Zoom call. No one enjoys being on Zoom. Sessions allows you to put an agenda on the left-hand side that actually live updates as you move through the material. It also negates the need to screen share. There’s no screen sharing.

Everything is fully interactive. So I can preload a PDF of a brand identity that I’m going to present to you. And you’re not seeing it through the screen share, which is warping the colors and the shapes and the clarity. It’s literally embedded like an iframe in the actual call. Fully flexible. There are AI pull features.

I love this platform and I’m super, super excited about it. For copywriting, I actually think ChatGPT is not that great and it can be okay, but you have to give it a lot of input and a lot of training before it’s going to sound decent. Otherwise, everything is going to be unlocked the power, unleash the creativity, let’s delve into delve, a tapestry of cliche terms.

I’m sorry for the people that used those words before ChatGPT came along, but ChatGPT has ruined them. And so I’m more, I’m a bigger fan of tools like AnyWord, specifically is really cool. AnyWord allows you to create copy in a variety of styles and formats, but it actually has something called a predictive performance score.

So based on over 20 million istances of good copy online. I’m talking Facebook ads, blog posts, over 20 million. It will actually create a performance score based on the performance potential. of the copy that it’s written. It can, from a simple piece of copy, you can look at the target audience, the gender, the voice, it’s mind blowing.

And so it really takes copywriting and boils it down into a science. that’s another one that I’m very, very excited about. What else? There’s so many, you almost have to like give me like a specific aspect of business and I’ll basically have a tool for you. Well, okay. Here’s one more. 

So, I am so jazzed about Adobe Firefly Text to Image tool. Right now, at least at the time of recording this, it is available in the web browser, but this is taking text to image creation and dialing it up and giving you two brand new opportunities to provide guidance to the AI on what it is you’re looking for.

So, for branding … Imagine you can upload a style reference. So let’s say I put a screenshot of my image or a screenshot of my desk and even my shirt. It’s kind of like baby puke. That’s kind of the color of it.

So if I was to feed your words, not mine, AI might reference this color or some of these other colors in my home office, and it’s going to use those as parameters to create something based on a text prompt that I provide.

The other  feature is called structure reference. So Mike, I could literally take a blank piece of paper, draw a circle and a line or like a draw a stick figure, doesn’t have to be fancy. It will use that as structural reference to create something based on a text prompt.

So we’re now not just getting whatever AI comes up with, but we’re able to give references like brand colors, layout ideas for a website or social media post or carousel.

It’s so cool. I think for people that are overwhelmed by AI. Sorry, I keep talking about AI, but you can tell I get excited about it. Don’t stare at chat GPT and go, “What the heck am I supposed to type in?”

Go to Adobe Firefly, which is free. It’s a credit based, credit based system, so obviously on a free plan, you’ve got more limited credits, but if you already have Creative Cloud Express, you have, for example, Adobe Express Premium, which already has a lot of these AI features integrated.

You don’t have to pay extra for it. As well as Adobe Stock. You don’t have to license extra. It’s all done in Express. But it’s so fun to try text to image and use your imagination and feel creative by just experimenting. And I just get so excited about this for small business owners. 

Mike Allton: I couldn’t agree more. This is one of the things that I’ve been playing with most recently. Those of you listening, you probably know me and you know that I’ve been a blogger for over a decade and a half. And well, I love coming up with the featured images. That’s something where I’ve always come back and forth.

Do I put a lot of time in it? Do I not? For a long time, I was like religiously only using photographs that I’d personally taken, which I thought looked great on the blog, but maybe have nothing to do with the article itself. And I recently realized that why don’t. I just use AI to create images that speak to me.

And so I’ve started this new theme for myself where I tell the AI, I want an animal in human clothes. And I specified a bear. I want a bear in human clothes, wearing a fedora hat because my site’s the social media app. And in a Star Wars setting. So I’m a Star Wars fan and doing something then very specific like writing a blog post or creating a social media plan or whatever it is that the article is actually about.

And instantly I’ve got that vision in an image and it’s fantastic. It takes seconds, put my little logo on there. And now I’ve got the featured image for a blog post. And then I would love to take it up a notch, which is what you just said, which is to feed the AI, my actual brand kit. There’s no correlation between the images that I’m creating today and my brand.

There are no colors or styles or anything else in there. Being able to do that with Firefly sounds fascinating. 

Phil Pallen: Yes, it’s so fun. And one of the most important things that I’ve learned with generative AI is I challenged myself not to accept the first result, even if it’s cool or it’s exciting. AI is most powerful when you’re iterating and having an ongoing conversation with it.

Mike Allton: One of the takeaways, I hope all of you listening from to this conversation should be, I hope to find things that you are genuinely passionate about and curious about, and pursue those diligently with that passion. Create videos, create content, talk about ’em on your social channels. That’s where opportunities will come and find you.

Like they’ve come and found Phil. We’re talking about clients, we’re talking about brand sponsorships, book deals, all these things have come and found Phil because he’s taken that time. He’s channeled those passions and interests. It doesn’t have to be AI, but obviously I think you’ll go far if you have an interest in AI today.

Phil, this has been absolutely amazing. I can’t thank you enough for your time.

 That’s all we’ve got for today, but don’t forget to find the Social Pulse Podcast Agency Edition on Apple and leave us a review.

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